Our guest in this episode is Dr. Gina Sandor. Dr. Gina is the Associate Veterinarian at Cheatham County Animal Clinic.

In this episode, we cover:

• Dr. Gina’s Journey into veterinary medicine

• Dr. Gina’s focus on patient diets

• Her experience regarding the relationship between general practice & specialty hospitals

• The unique aspects of her practice

• Work-life balance

• Efficient time management

• The significance of overcoming failures 

• Much More!

Thank you so much for listening to this episode! We hope you enjoy it!

Elliott with Chckup:

Get started. Well, I guess I screwed up the countdown. Oh well. Welcome back to another episode of Vet Clinic Convos. Today, my guest is Dr. Gina Sandor. How are you today?

Dr. Gina Sandor:

Doing well, how about yourself?

Elliott:

I am doing well. I'm not in my usual office. So I had to make a makeshift podcast studio here in my girlfriend's room. So here we are.

Dr. Gina:

Well, I'm trying to make sure the tiny human cannot be heard in the background. My son is being a terror this morning.

Elliott:

Oh boy, well I think he'll probably be as respectful as he can be and if not, I think the tiny human will be of great character to this episode so I don't think you need to worry about it.

Dr. Gina:

Dad has them outside, so hopefully we won't hear any of it.

Elliott:

Great. Well, just to kind of kick us off, do you want to kind of tell me a little bit about yourself, your background, and kind of how you got into the being of veterinarian?

Dr. Gina:

Yeah, so I'm from Tennessee, born and raised, and I went to undergrad at UT Martin. And then I ended up going to veterinary school at UT Knoxville. So been across Tennessee. And I mean, I've wanted to be a veterinarian since I was like in second grade. So it kind of just was something I've always wanted to do. I know some people don't kind of. that calling until late much later in life so it's just something that I don't know if I'd see myself doing anything else.

Elliott:

Yeah, it's kind of nice to, I mean, I'm pretty fortunate that I kind of wanted to go into business and I found that out when I was like 15. So while I try and help other people as much as I can, it is very fortunate to know what you want to do very early.

Dr. Gina:

Yes.

Elliott:

So I also just kind of a little bit more background, if you don't mind. Can you tell me a little bit about the practice that you work at?

Dr. Gina:

Yeah, so I work at Cheatham County Animal Clinic and they are one of, I mean it's starting to get to that point where you don't really find anything that's not corporate. So they're still privately owned. I work with my boss. She just bought the practice, I'm gonna say about three years ago, but prior to that it was owned by another doctor. So, but it's, it's pretty much a all women practice. We do have one relief veterinarian that comes in and that's a guy. But it's a it's pretty small town. I mean, our staff, I think we have about 15 on staff. So it's a pretty small clinic. And we're in, it's kind of like a transitioning area because we are so close to Nashville, that we have a lot. Yeah, we have a lot of people that are moving out this way, I guess suburban, rural life, and then they also want to be close to the city.

So we have a very mixed clientele. We have those that have like lived here all their lives, and then we have those that are working in Nashville and just come here to live. So we see a lot of like higher-end clientele as well.

Elliott:

So that makes sense because whenever you told me you work at a small practice and then you said you have 15 staff members. So I'm in Louisiana and I have seen some very small practices and it is a lot less people than 15.

Dr. Gina:

Really?

Elliott:

So I imagine that it's because you're very close to Nashville and you're getting a lot of that. So that makes a lot more sense.

So is there anything that you would say is unique about the practice that you worked at and it's Cheatham County? Am I saying that correctly?

Dr. Gina:

Yes, Cheatham County. I mean, the big thing is that it's privately owned and it's all female practice. And so I mean, we,

Elliott:

I guess that is true. That's becoming more of a rarity these days, but...

Dr. Gina:

yeah, it's yes.

But yeah, we, I guess the location is just kind of unique too, just because of where it is. I mean, we had right down, I'm going to say about five minutes down the road is where they filmed Nashville. So I mean, it's in an area where we have a lot of people that are in the music industry and in the film industry. So we do see a lot of that clientele as well.

Elliott:

Okay, well that's not a bad thing at all. I think that's actually very cool.

Dr. Gina:

Yeah.

Elliott:

I don't know how many other practices get to help with celebrities and their pets.

So one of the things whenever I was first trying to put things together when I knew that I was gonna have you come on, I noticed that one of your most recent and even, and maybe I'm wrong, but kind of what you list as is one of your specialties is a. the dietary needs and I guess trying to think of not a dietitian but that's kind of where some of your focus is at. Is that correct?

Dr. Gina:

Um, so I'm, I'm very invested in getting my patients to their ideal weight. So it's more about that caloric intake and like trying to calculate what's best for them. Um, I'm by no means a nutritionist, but I do know how to like point my clients in the right direction, um, especially if they want to do like home based diets and then they actually want to like cook for their pets. So.

It's a lot more than just throwing something in a stove and cooking it and giving it to your dog. So there's a lot of discussion that goes on.

Elliott:

So is there anything specific that like the first thing that comes to mind when you think about that, that maybe other just again, we're trying to make this to be valuable to other people in the veterinary space.

What are some of the kind of just go to from the hip tips that you give when it comes to whether it's people trying to make their own diet for their pet or whether it's just general advice on trying to get the pet to their ideal weight.

Dr. Gina:

So I advise you to talk to your veterinarian. Your veterinarian's the first step. So they will be able to kind of point you in a direction. Usually with my client, if they want to do like a home-based meal, I'm lucky that UT Knoxville College of Veterinary Medicine, they have a board certified nutritionist on staff. So we can actually do kind of like a tele communication with them and they can kind of point my client in the direction of like what they need to be doing diet wise.

There's also a really awesome program called Balance It, and it's something that anybody can look up. And what it basically does is it helps owners balance a meal for their pet. And they also have, they have the supplements that you need to add to the food, because a lot of owners don't really realize that you can't just use a diet, you have to actually put in multivitamins for those

Elliott:

That makes sense. I mean, I feel like I've been taking more vitamins and supplements separately.

So I mean, I'm not surprised that you have to do the same thing for your pet. So bringing it back, I guess, to your practice, what would you say is the biggest contributing factor to the success of your practice? And I know you're not the head and an associate veterinarian, but still, what kind of, would you say, attributes to success? over where you're at.

Dr. Gina:

I really think it boils down to communication. So, I mean, if we are open book with our clients, we're also able to be that platform for our clients if they need like specialty care. We have a really good relationship with the referral facilities around us and we're actually getting more in the area, which is great, so that we have that option for our clients.

So I really do think it's all about communicating with our client and also understanding our client and what their needs and wants are as well.

Elliott:

Yeah, no, I mean, I definitely believe, I mean, one of the things I've been focusing on both for myself personally and for professional career is improving my communication. I think it's literally one of the most important things. Hell, it's part of also why I started a podcast. Uh, but now that makes sense. And I guess, yeah, that is really a lot nicer now that you have, uh, specialty hospitals coming in the area to, uh, help things out. Um, Is there a specific- Or what can you kind of like take me through just I know I'm not as industry expert, but just what a lot of those communications are like between a specialty hospital versus I guess a general practice like the one you're at

Dr. Gina:

Um, so as far as like communicating with our clients, we, I know, um, you guys do check that we use pet desk at this point in time. So they're able to like send us a text if they need something that's very simple, like, Hey, my pet needs a refill on their heart medication. Um, so we're able to communicate through, um, through the web. I mean, if they want to shoot us an email or if they want to use pet desk, we do set aside at least. 30 minutes every day for me to be able to actually personally contact and follow up with my clients on like difficult cases or if I need to refer a patient to one of our referral facilities, I'm able to do that as well. And there's, I mean, I still pick up the phone if I need to refer somebody because I want that referral facility to actually hear it coming from my mouth.

But I do also, they have like an online platform too that I'm able to refer through. So there's, I mean, between seeing them in person, between the Pet Desk app, and between actually talking to them on the telephone, we've got multiple ways that they can communicate with us.

Elliott:

Yeah, I mean, that's obviously utilizing technology is huge. And that's something obviously we over here check up, try and do. Uh, that actually leads me to kind of, and it doesn't even have to be specific to this aspect of the client's communication, but, uh, just based on a lot of conversations I've had as an outsider, kind of coming in, one of the biggest issues I've seen is that a lot of people in the veterinary space. end up getting burnt out as a big part of that is from just kind of poor resource management. It's not necessarily that they're overloaded, which while that is the case, but I feel like a lot of what I've seen is there could be better ways of doing stuff.

And they just are whether it's, I mean, it might be different. You are fairly young, so you probably came in and just like, no, I'm not doing it that way. But is there something that you have done or whether it's recently or that you just have found that you use to make your day to day life more efficient, easier, et cetera. Just kind of for somebody else to be able to pick up on and go, hey, that's really good. That could help me out.

Dr. Gina:

Yeah, so you have got to make it about your own time. When I did graduate and you say I'm young, but I've been almost out a decade now.

Elliott:

You're still young.

Dr. Gina:

So my first job, yeah, first job was included on call. And it was I was the only one there at night. So there was no staff with me. It was awful. And then we had not much time off. And that's one thing that I've really As far as like this job that I'm at now, I mean, I've been there since my first job. So there's definitely that, that borderline where it's like, okay, you, I've got so much time in a day for my clients, but there's also a time where I need to just turn things off. So at home, I mean, at 8pm, my phone goes on, do not disturb. So I'm not going to hear anybody past that point. But yeah, during the day, as far as like trying to do time management, usually in the mornings, it depends on if I'm the surgeon for the day. So we have surgery days. Uh-oh. You blanked out a little bit, but you're back. Okay. Yeah.

So, yeah. So in the mornings, if I'm doing surgeries, I have... so much time that I'm going to be able to put together as far as like getting my drug protocol together, getting everybody ready for surgery, do the surgeries, communicate with the client that they're doing well after surgery. So having that time put aside for those particular communications. And then afternoon, usually I'm doing appointments and then discharges are later that afternoon. But most of the time I'm able to communicate with the owner like what they need to be doing post-operatively on the phone. and then my assistant will go over the discharges when they come to pick up. And then we also have everything in writing.

Elliott:

That helps.

Dr. Gina:

So you got to think of people and yes, how they learn. So I, you can talk to me and I, all that will go out. I'll get like 10% of that information. I, most of it will go out the window. So I have to have it written down. Yeah. Written down or you have to like show me and I had to do it myself. So you just got to remember that people don't really learn the same. So. Being able to communicate in multiple aspects.

Elliott:

I have the same way.

Dr. Gina:

But I already forgot what the question was. Something about time management, right?

Elliott:

It was basically so, just figuring out what's something that you have either have done or you currently do that just you you're maximizing the day basically, whether it's through certain tools, whether it's through the way you do things like you just mentioned, not everybody learns the same and not everybody retains info the same way. I mean, my girlfriend is an engineer and it's very hard to hear her explain what she does.

I'm like, you need to almost make a PowerPoint for me so I can see it visually since that's how I learned. So um, no, I think that's huge. just making sure that everybody learns the way that they learn. Because if not, you're going to have that breakdown of communication, which is the important thing that we just discussed.

Dr. Gina:

Yeah.

Well, not in as far as time management goes. I'm lucky that I'm at a clinic that we have a set schedule. So, I mean, it's not walk in. That was my first job to anybody and everybody could walk in, but we do still have some of those clients. I mean, especially if they come in on like an emergency, we at least set, like, I think it's two, like 45 minutes slots aside for like same day visits.

So if we have somebody that calls that morning and it's like, my pet's really sick, can we be seen? we have that ability to be able to see them and not double book ourselves. So that's also really kind of key to time management at my clinic is that having that ability to be able to schedule the way that we do.

Elliott:

Yeah, no, I mean, that makes sense. I'm seeing that that's the trend is even if you are schedule only, you still have some kind of just time set aside just in case. And I imagine that helps make things a lot easier.

Dr. Gina:

Yes.

Elliott:

So it's not when stuff hits the fan, or not if, but when.

Dr. Gina:

Yes.

Elliott:

So yeah, now that definitely makes a lot of sense. So leading on the last question I had of just kind of what specifically this is more I guess for your life. So what is the one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've ever made, whether it's in for time, energy, you've done it with money, etc.

Dr. Gina:

Um, I probably have to say sitting down and talking to a financial advisor. So when you come out and you're green and you have $200,000 of debt, it's like, okay, where'd I go from here? But, um, I didn't really kind of think about that until I was in, there's a program it's called power of 10 and it's a leadership program that's, um, I think Tennessee and Alabama do it. I don't know if there's any other areas. but we actually got to sit down and discuss with, I think it's Tony Bartels, he's on VIN, and he kind of walked us through the way that we could save on our student loans and how to prepare. And so that really got me thinking about sitting down with somebody that would be able to help out with the financial aspect of my life. And so my husband and I were lucky, we went to undergraduate school with a friend of ours who that is- all he does. And so right before it was almost right before our son was born, we sat down and he kind of walked us through how to set up an investment account and how to get our wills together and all those fun things that nobody really likes to think about. But it does make you feel a lot better after you do it all.

Elliott:

Especially I'm glad you touched on that It's blowing my mind how I feel like wills aren't even considered when it comes to stuff like that like I know it's a morbid topic, but I was talking with my Mom who told me that my uncle was just like no, I don't have a will and they're just like well Why not and he's just like I don't have anything and then he just started mentally recounting and he's like, holy shit I need get a will so sometimes it's the stuff that you don't think about is actually some very important thing that you need to take care of. But no, that's a, that's a very good point. I sometimes forget about that too. And I think it's also something that is underutilized, especially coming from an industry that isn't financially literate necessarily to say, not saying that in a bad way, saying that in just, I mean, I know that I've worked with the people that used to teach, they used to teach a business school or a business classes at the LSU veterinary school since I'm in Baton Rouge, but they no longer do that. So besides that.

Dr. Gina:

Yeah, they really need to have a business every year of that school.

Elliott:

I mean, I think it's the same. I don't even think it needs just for this industry. I mean, I've said this for like everything. I mean, you sell in every, no matter what career you're in. I think you should take like a personal sales course because you're gonna have to sell yourself whether it's for another job or whether it's if you're buying a car. I mean, it helps with that. But yeah, so I'm all for that. So speaking of, I guess, school, is there any advice that you have and would give to a young person, whether they're in vet school or kind of just getting started, maybe in the front lines at the reception staff at a practice? They want to make this their career. What advice do you have for them?

Dr. Gina:

start young. So if you're really wanting to do it, you really need to get involved when you're young because that will really let you see what goes on in reality at the clinic. If you're able to, you know, pick up after poop and vomit and blood and pee and all the fun stuff.

Elliott:

All the fluids.

Dr. Gina:

Yes, all the bodily fluids. But the other thing is talking to them about, look, this is going to be a huge investment. I mean, vet school is not cheap. So trying to get them prepared of, okay, how are you going to pay for vet school? What type of loan are you going to get? When are you gonna need to pay this off? What's the interest rate? Things like that. So maybe even getting a financial advisor before you even consider veterinary school to get you prepared for that. That would probably be what my top recommendation would be for them.

Elliott:

Yeah, no, I mean, that's definitely an important thing that I don't even think is, again, unique to veterinary space. I think there's a lot of people that just might gung ho at something and not even think that they're about to take on a ton of student debt just to go to school. So I think that is a fantastic point. And it seems like that has been a key to your career is actually playing things very smart financially.

Dr. Gina:

trying to. My biggest debt is my loans. Everything else, I mean, the only other debt I have is our mortgage, which is less than my student loans now.

Elliott:

Wow.

Dr. Gina:

But yeah, the car is paid off. So yeah, it's, it's one of those things. It's like, well, I'd be debt free, but student loans, that interest rate, man.

Elliott:

Yeah, it's a tough one. So what trends are you kind of seeing in the veterinary space? And what are you, whether it's you personally or your practice is trying to do to best keep up with those changes, and to kind of try and stay ahead of the curve.

Dr. Gina:

Um, are we talking like trends as far as like advancement in medicine or like work life balance?

Elliott:

We can do both. I mean, it just kind of any. I mean, it's always a different, some somebody's interested in a different topic. Somebody's interested. I mean, whether, whether you're even a doctor, whether you're just in management, whether you're a specialist, whether you're not, I mean, it's kind of, this one's a free for all question. It was just based on where you personally see the veterinary industry going. What kind of, what do you do to either stay ahead of it? What do you do to kind of prepare for it? Uh, things like. That is nice.

Dr. Gina:

Okay. Yeah, so I mean, I'll focus on work-life balance. So my clinic is probably one of the few that I have at least two days during the week off, back to back, and then we don't work Sundays, and we're only open until about one on Saturday. But then at least once a month, sometimes twice, I get a five-day weekend. So I'm off from Friday until Tuesday. And that's usually.

Yeah. And so when people hear that, they're like, are you joking? And I'm like, no, when I don't have any on call either. So that's nice. Um, but yeah, that,

Elliott:

That's also very nice.

Dr. Gina:

yeah, very, very big seller for me when I got this job was they were like, we try our best to give you the time off with your family that you need, but you're also, you know, still going to make what you need to make to get your salary plus production. So it's, I, I would take this. I, when I took this job at first, I took a $10,000 pay cut. But in the long run, I've made that back more than enough. So, due to production as far as me making more.

Elliott:

And is that related to just out of my pure, I just like to ask a lot of questions sometimes, is that due to production? Or is that just...

Dr. Gina:

So no, I actually, my base salary has increased about 40,000 from when I started to now. And then I also get production on top of that. So, yeah.

Elliott:

And do you mind breaking down production for me if you just if you don't mind

Dr. Gina:

So my production is, it does not have any negative accrual. There are some companies that do that. If you make negative, then you owe them at the next time around. So ours is based off of, it's every three months. So I basically add up what I've made the clinic and multiply that by 22, because I get 22% of that. And so I base what I've made in my salary and if there's any additional after that, that's what I get.

Elliott:

Okay, yeah, no, that makes sense. I just kind of wanted to hear how you explained it.

Dr. Gina:

Yeah, it's kind of a, I guess a weird play on pro-sale. I know a lot of clinics that do pro-salary, so kind of like that, but I think better.

Elliott:

Okay, now that makes sense. Yeah, it sounds pretty nice.

Dr. Gina:

Yeah.

Elliott:

So how has a failure or an apparent failure set you up for later success in your career?

Dr. Gina:

So, yeah. When I was in undergraduate school, the veterinarian that was on staff told me I would not make it into vet school. And I took that personally.

Elliott:

You showed him.

Dr. Gina:

And so here I am. But yes, I was just very distraught that he just looked at me and was like, I don't think you're a good candidate. And I just went and got myself another advisor and went from there. So don't always, yeah. Especially when you've got an attitude like mine and somebody tells you can't do something.

Elliott:

Sometimes that's all it takes. I think that's the best attitude is when somebody says no you that's the best way to prove them wrong to just do it

Dr. Gina:

Yeah, but unfortunately I'm kind of seeing that in my son already, so it's going to be challenging with him. No, you can't do that! Watch me!

Elliott:

Oh yeah, I guess. Okay, that's true. Nevermind. I'm starting to hear flashbacks of from my mother telling me that I did exactly that.

So in the past five years, what is a new kind of belief behavior or habit that you have taken into your life and you have just used it to improve your current life, I guess.

Dr. Gina:

Um, saying my time is my time. So when I'm at home, if somebody's trying to ask me a veterinary question, I just don't answer them.

Unless it's a very dear friend and they have a legitimate emergency. But yeah, I started, I want to say in the last year is when I, yeah, it was pro right before my son was born. Um, started putting the phone on, do not start. I was like, I've got to do it. I've got to be able to get my rest that I need in order to function appropriately. So just trying, I mean, it sounds, you may feel, I don't know, you may feel like you're letting some people down, but in the long run, you need that. You need to be able to back away from some situations and give yourself that personal time.

Elliott:

No, I completely agree. I think even though Apple has put out some cool stuff, I think Do Not Disturb is literally the greatest feature that I've ever come out with. I have it pretty much any time I am working and I just have it set for certain people who might actually call me for emergencies. So now I use it all the time and I think it is amazing. Um, so is there something that is kind of standard practice in, and I say veterinary medicine, this doesn't have to necessarily be a medical question. Um, but is it just, is there something standard practice that you kind of wish was different mostly because whether there's better alternatives or there's just a pure different way that you could go about something, um, yeah.

Dr. Gina:

Well, so I kind of looked into that question, but to me, and it's for the veterinarians that are coming out of veterinary school because they are going to be, most of them are probably going to be going corporate. We really need to get rid of the non-compete clause. It is ridiculous. And so, I mean, if you just imagine trying to go to a corporate and then your first year out, most of the time, most people do not stay at their first year job, at least in veterinary medicine. which is also something that needs to be changed. But they're working for this corporate, they find out, hey, I really don't wanna do this anymore, I wanna go somewhere else. That corporate owns so many hospitals in the area and then say that they can't compete within like a 20 mile radius. I mean, some people that makes them, I mean, they'll have to like move out of state in order to get a different job. So I really, I don't see the purpose of having a non-compete clause in veterinary medicine anymore. And I know that's typically standard practice at this point.

Elliott:

And I'm it's okay if you don't know the answer to this but is that how it is in human medicine to do they Is it typically okay?

Dr. Gina:

I really don't know.

Elliott:

I mean I understand. I'm just saying this from my perspective I actually had to do a non-compete yesterday, but it was only for six months But I mean it that doesn't make any sense. You're correct. I Also get where they're coming from. But yeah, I mean it's I guess the real thing I'm wondering is how likely does that hold up in? other areas because obviously, especially if they don't do it in human medicine, I don't, it makes no sense here. Like that, that is, it's kind of just how it is. And I kind of just, and maybe it's just me coming in. I kind of just look, compare the two since it seems one, uh, human medicine's obviously further ahead than veterinary medicine. So, um, yeah, I was just curious on, um, what your thoughts might be on that. I mean, I know that's a very a big one right now. I've been reading all about the kind of non-compete situation with veterinarians. It seems like, I guess, backing up. Are you noticing if it's changing at all? Or is it kind of just only just now being talked about?

Dr. Gina:

I know there's, yeah, I know I want to say the last like ADMA conference, that was something that was being discussed. I didn't get to go to that. I went a couple of years ago in Chicago and they were talking more along like should technicians be called nurses and that thing. But yeah, I do know that it's in discussion. I haven't really seen like an update recently. I usually try to check the boards like once a week while I'm at work just to see if there's anything else going on. But yeah, I'm pretty sure it's still in discussion and we're hopefully leaning towards getting rid of it, but we'll see.

Elliott:

Okay, well, that's kind of everything I have. I don't know if you have anything else you might want to talk about if there's anything else you might just want to plug.

Dr. Gina:

I don't know, I'm pretty easygoing. I don't really plug anything, I don't have anything personal.

Elliott:

Well, I appreciate the time. Very insightful. I think a lot of people will take your story into account, especially I know for me and younger people trying to get in to this industry. Obviously one of the best ways I think to learn is to learn from people who've done it before.

So I appreciate the time. Thank you so much for coming on. And thank you for listening to another episode of Vec Clinic Convos.

Dr. Gina:

Thank you.

For more info on the episode, see the sources below.

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/gina-calvo-sandor-dvm-a706b596/

• https://www.cheathamcountyanimalclinictn.com/

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